神は私の苦痛を慰める (adrieljohnson) wrote in multijournal,
神は私の苦痛を慰める
adrieljohnson
multijournal

Intresting about the whole LJ and MJ.

A recent conversation in #lj_support on LazyChat. If you intrested you may read below.




[03:51] * challgren wonders why brad is picking sides with password storing

[03:51] <challgren> He blocks MJ but allows Audblog to store users passwords and
doesnt block them

[03:54] <supersat> ... LJ blocks MJ?

[03:54] <challgren> yep

[03:54] <supersat> how so?

[03:54] <challgren> http://www.multijournal.com/cgi-bin/beta.pl?domain=www.livejournal.com&interface=/interface/flat

[03:55] <challgren> that is the test script to test a servers connection and
interface

[03:55] <supersat> ask in lj_dev?

[03:55] <challgren> And he doesn't block Audblog which stores passwords in plain
text

[03:56] <supersat> or lj_clients (it IS a client)

[03:56] <challgren> http://www.livejournal.com/community/multijournal/4840.html

[03:56] <challgren> he already said he blocked it

[03:57] <challgren> I just think it is crap that he is just blocking me instead
of every service that stores LJ passwords on their servers

[03:57] <supersat> brad's just a fucktard

[03:57] <challgren> My DB is on a private network Audblog is open to the world

[03:57] <challgren> http://www.audblog.com:3306

[03:58] <supersat> I wouldn't be suprised if audblog was killed in the future

[03:58] <challgren> How so

[03:58] <supersat> for "security reasons"

[03:58] <bubba> yeah and lj is working on that whole posting voice thing. or
something. right?

[03:58] <challgren> Thats why MJ was killed

[03:58] <supersat> LJ is introducing their own post-by-phone service, though

[03:59] <bubba> yes

[03:59] <supersat> so when that comes out, I think they'll kill audblog

[03:59] * supersat has an idea

[03:59] <challgren> That could spark some debate

[03:59] <supersat> go through an anonymous proxy server

[03:59] <challgren> Thats already what I though

[03:59] <supersat> a random, anonymous proxy server at that

[04:00] <challgren> But the whole LJ making their own Post by phone could spark
some hugh and possible legal debate

[04:00] <Sherm> is he blocking you because of password security or because your
app uses the databse in stupid ways?

[04:00] <challgren> Because of the password security

[04:01] <supersat> :y, this is way too insecure. There are proper, cryptographic
ways to do single-signon, and this is most definitely not the right way.

[04:01] <supersat> I've blocked access to LiveJournal from your servers, as I
don't want people giving their LJ passwords to your system.

[04:01] <challgren> But Audblog stores everything in plain text and MJ at least
MD5's it

[04:01] <supersat> BTW, you give your password to WAP clients

[04:01] <supersat> which is the same thing

[04:01] <challgren> What?

[04:01] <supersat> if he wants proper security, he should fucking add support
for it

[04:01] <supersat> when you post from your phone, you have to go through a
third-party WAP site

[04:01] <challgren> MJ has no wap support

[04:01] <supersat> and in the process you send your LJ password in plaintext

[04:02] <challgren> But yeah WAP clients are insecure too

[04:02] <challgren> pratically the whole internet is secure

[04:02] <challgren> Jack did a test on BSU network and probally gathered tons of
LJ passwords

[04:02] <challgren> I was showing him how insecure the internet is

[04:03] <supersat> LJ's password recovery scheme is laughably insecure too

[04:03] * Quits: bubba (~bubba@thebubba.net ) (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command
used by bubba_)) )

[04:03] <supersat> steps to compromise an account:

[04:03] <challgren> Oh yeah he stores it in plain text too

[04:03] <supersat> 1) Find an inactive account with a publicly listed hotmail
account

[04:03] * Joins: bubba (~bubba@thebubba.net)

[04:03] <supersat> 2) Register the hotmail account

[04:03] <supersat> 3) ???

[04:03] <Sherm> you're arguing against brad saying "you're an idiot, go away."

[04:03] <supersat> 4) PROFIT

[04:03] <rahaeli> karl, we killed that

[04:03] <challgren> Oh yeah I already known the method for tons of stiff

[04:03] <rahaeli> anything abandoned more than 6 months doesn't show an email
address anymore

[04:03] <supersat> oh yeah

[04:03] <Sherm> you'd have to argue that you're not an idiot, not that x, y, and
z aren't true

[04:04] <challgren> I just want to know why he is trying to monopolize the whole
LJ based themes

[04:04] * bubba KILLS his internet

[04:04] <Sherm> LJ based themes?

[04:04] <rahaeli> storing anyone's password is dumb.

[04:04] * bubba highfive rahaeli

[04:04] <crschmidt> So most clients, including logjam, are dumb.

[04:04] <rahaeli> period.

[04:04] <supersat> LJ doesn't really give your a choice.

[04:05] <supersat> if LJ wants secure logins, they need to code in support for
it.

[04:05] <challgren> Yes I agree

[04:05] <supersat> hell, the win32 client encrypts your password by XORing it :P

[04:05] <Sherm> but LJ doesn't want secure logins, LJ just doesn't want LJ
passwords on metajournal.

[04:05] <Sherm> multijounral, hwatever

[04:05] <challgren> Hell what is Sema went off and added a thing to have your
password sent to his server

[04:06] <crschmidt> Rah? Do you feel that any lj client which stores your
password is exhibiting dumb behavior?

[04:06] <Sherm> sema went off and added improper syncitems support, and it got
blocked too.

[04:06] <Sherm> well, sema didn't, but :P

[04:06] <supersat> how was it improper?

[04:06] <supersat> I couldn't read the code. it hurt my brain.

[04:06] <Sherm> well, syncitems is improper

[04:06] <challgren> Not really, The syncitems was disabled

[04:06] <supersat> seriously... that's the WORST CODE I've seen

[04:06] <Sherm> I don't get it, ask mark sometime

[04:07] <rahaeli> LJ clients that store your password on your computer are dumb,
but not idiotic.

[04:07] <Sherm> mark's client supposedly does it right, nobody else ever has

[04:07] <rahaeli> any service that stores your password on someone else's
servers are at best braindead and at worse criminally negligent.

[04:07] <challgren> rahaeli im sure you have your password stored on yoru
computer

[04:07] <supersat> I think the problem was that everyone was syncing from the
begining of time, since they haven't synced before

[04:07] * Sherm applauds rah

[04:07] * rahaeli takes off her abuse team manager hat.

[04:07] * bubba highhighfive rah

[04:07] * bubba steals hat and puts it on

[04:07] <bubba> mwah hah hah

[04:07] <rahaeli> anyone remember when blogger got cracked?

[04:07] <supersat> yup

[04:08] <rahaeli> i rest my case.

[04:08] <challgren> how did blogger get cracked

[04:08] <supersat> LJ really needs to NOT store passwords in plaintext

[04:08] <rahaeli> how does anyone get cracked? stupidity.

[04:08] <supersat> fuck recovering them

[04:08] <rahaeli> but blogger stored passwords.

[04:08] <challgren> And logins should be used over a SSL based site

[04:08] <rahaeli> one breakin compromised thousands of systems.

[04:09] <Sherm> who cares how they're stored? if someone compomises the db, you
have a world of trouble either way

[04:09] <Sherm> the issue is..what challgren said

[04:09] <challgren> i dont store anything in plain text

[04:09] <challgren> any ways on my network only port 80 and 443 are open

[04:09] <bubba> okay it's probably time to stop repeating this song.

[04:09] * bubba clickus

[04:09] <Sherm> I don't think that's really the point, dude

[04:09] <Sherm> point is

[04:09] <Sherm> if you're a dumbass

[04:09] <supersat> just use anonymous proxy servers and forget it

[04:09] <Sherm> and some kiddie gets at your server

[04:09] <Sherm> and you have 10,000 LJ user passwords on there

[04:10] <Sherm> and all their accounts get compromised

[04:10] <rahaeli> and then rah kills you.

[04:10] <challgren> the passwords arent even stored on the server

[04:10] <Sherm> it's going to be LJ getting bitched at, not you

[04:10] <bubba> and theabuse team bubba HUNTS YOU DOWN AND KILLS YOU

[04:10] <Sherm> well whatever, you're clearly going to have to store them
somewhere

[04:10] <rahaeli> or rah delegates killin' duty to tehbubba, who is better at
looking imposing ;)

[04:10] <Sherm> and why should brad trust your security or systems design
practices at all?

[04:10] <bubba> much betta. and much stronger : )

[04:10] <rahaeli> hey! i used to be able to bench press you :P

[04:10] <rahaeli> not so much since i had to stop lifting because of my hands,
but still

[04:11] <challgren> what makes all you guys trust them

[04:11] <bubba> :)

[04:11] * rahaeli makes muscle

[04:11] * bubba makes muscle and rah's get lost in shadow

[04:11] <bubba> ;P

[04:11] <Sherm> what?

[04:11] <challgren> Seems all you guys trust brad with his security

[04:11] <rahaeli> Okay! Let's have a little compare-and-contrast session.

[04:11] <Sherm> I don't, I also dont' give a rat's ass about my journal's
content

[04:11] <rahaeli> On one hand: LJ. Open codebase. Thousands of people reading
the code. Millions of people using the codebase.

[04:12] <Sherm> and will not be harrassing customer service somewhere if it gets
hacked

[04:12] <Sherm> 'hacked'

[04:12] <rahaeli> On the other hand: one client that's being developed by
someone whose credentials are unproven.

[04:12] <challgren> What makes everyone else diffrent from me

[04:12] <challgren> What about LogJam, LochJournal, Sema

[04:12] <challgren> even Visions client

[04:12] <rahaeli> I refuse to discuss matters such as this with people who do
not understand the concepts of peer review and the fundamental difference
between client-side and server-side password storage.

[04:13] <Sherm> don't make stupid arguments, dude.

[04:13] * rahaeli declares her participation in this argument over.

[04:13] <challgren> No I'm saying not in computely secure

[04:13] * rahaeli goes back to writing her porn.

[04:13] <challgren> Anyone of those clients could be sending your password to
another site and the author could be collecting them

[04:13] <Sherm> and if they were, that would be stupid and retarded and evil.

[04:14] <challgren> You guys are trying to make it out to sound like im out
there to collect password

[04:14] <Sherm> I don't think any of them have been shown to be doing that.
yours, however, is explicity designed to.

[04:14] <challgren> No but it could be done

[04:14] <Sherm> how would your system be at all useful without collecting
passwords?

[04:15] <challgren> It is a proxy server

[04:15] <rahaeli> So, Bubba, how 'bout them Mets?

[04:15] <supersat> just change the way it works

[04:15] * bubba snickers at rah.

[04:15] <challgren> It allows you to use any client that supports diffrent
servers to be able to post to multiple servers from one client

[04:15] * bubba dances naked across channel. that'll stop the convo ;)

[04:15] <supersat> require everyone to use the same password on each site

[04:15] <supersat> then you don't store a password

[04:15] <rahaeli> oh, that's secure

[04:15] <bubba> RAHAELI

[04:15] <bubba> your involvement is ova.

[04:15] <rahaeli> right. right. porn.

[04:15] <bubba> shush. the porn awaits.

[04:16] <challgren> It wont and it doesnt because that is freaking way to
insecure

[04:16] <rahaeli> I've got half the participants naked!

[04:16] <rahaeli> The other half is being stubborn.

[04:16] <chipb0i> woo. rahporn

[04:16] <bubba> ooo 1/2 is sometimes better than all. sometimes.

[04:16] <rahaeli> I hate it when the characters want to /talk/ instead of fuck.

[04:16] <Sherm> so, my question still is, how does that work without storing LJ
passwords on some machine connected to the machine running the proxy server?

[04:16] <supersat> oookay... then require the password send to MJ to be
something like passwordforserviceA;passwordforserviceB;passwordforserviceC, etc.

[04:17] <rahaeli> sherrrrrrm

[04:17] <chipb0i> at least they are awake. i hate it when they want to sleep.

[04:17] <Sherm> rahhhh

[04:17] * chipb0i eyes his bedroom and grumbles

[04:17] <rahaeli> what's YOUR method for making characters fuck instead of talk?

[04:17] <challgren> What if I dont have a journal on serviceB

[04:17] <challgren> I support around 31 diffrent sites

[04:17] <Sherm> since when do I write smut?

[04:17] <Pthalo|shower> then: passwordforserviceA;;passwordforserviceC,

[04:17] <bubba> SINCE NOW BITCH

[04:17] <supersat> the service list is stored in the MJ db.

[04:17] <bubba> ANSWER INGVA

[04:17] <rahaeli> I don't know, but you're a guy, you should have SOME idea.

[04:18] <supersat> or... what maryam suggested

[04:18] <rahaeli> I mean, picture this.

[04:18] <challgren> Ok would you want to type
mypassowrd;for;diffrent;site;blah;this;is;a;very;secure;way;of;doing;shit

[04:18] <supersat> the only problem is that you'd have to require the clients to
send the password in plaintext

[04:18] <supersat> if they send an hpassword instead, you're fucked

[04:18] <rahaeli> You've got a hot guy mostly-naked and kneeling in front of
you. He wants to let you do whatever you want to do to him. The two of you are
negotiating limits and stuff and trying to figure out where the lines are.
You're more or less done.

[04:19] <rahaeli> How do you get to the actual /fucking/?

[04:19] <Pthalo|shower> "so, hot gorgeous guy, now that that's settled,"
*smooch*

[04:19] <Sherm> if it's a hot *guy* in front of me, preferably I wouldn't get to
that point.

[04:19] <rahaeli> right. i keep forgetting that there are straight people in
this channel

[04:20] <supersat> actually, hmm. idea!

[04:20] * rahaeli used to #lj_abuse! ;)

[04:20] <Pthalo|shower> yeh, me neither sherm. guys. ew

[04:20] * Pthalo|shower is now known as Pthalo

[04:20] <bubba> hm http://quotes.livejournal.ca/quote/129 begs to differ, sherm
:P

[04:20] <Pthalo> i'm not exactly showering anymore

[04:20] <Sherm> but hypothetically, some horribly cheezy line like "well, glad
we cleared that up, start suckin', bitch!"?

[04:20] * rahaeli threatens Sherm once more with brad/sherm

[04:20] <bubba> ACK

[04:20] <bubba> that is scary.

[04:20] <chipb0i> lol. that would be intersting.

[04:20] <supersat> store the hpassword of each user encrypted, with the
encryption key based on their MJ password, and store the MJ password hashed

[04:21] <supersat> that way, if the MJ DB gets compromised, it's useless

[04:21] <Sherm> it'd be cool if someone wrote a win32 app to accomplish that

[04:22] <challgren> Can MD5 be decrypted

[04:22] <supersat> no

[04:22] <challgren> thats what I store all passwords as

[04:22] <challgren> MD5

[04:22] <supersat> but, here's the thing...

[04:22] <supersat> you can send the MD5 hash of the password to LJ, and it
treats it as the password

[04:23] <challgren> Ok I will encrypt it using a special salt

[04:23] <supersat> so if someone obtains the MD5 hash of the password, they can
do (virtually) anything they can with a normal password

[04:23] * Joins: jackola (~jackola@nat-147-226-208-118.bsu.edu)

[04:23] <supersat> you can't

[04:23] <challgren> How

[04:23] <supersat> then you can't send it to LJ

[04:23] <challgren> How can they do anything

[04:23] <challgren> I though web MD5 logins were never coming out

[04:23] <challgren> all they can do is communicate with the protocol

[04:23] <supersat> they can do a lot of stuff through the client

[04:24] * Quits: pezstar (stinkpalm@ilm56-215-096.ec.rr.com ) (Quit: )

[04:24] <challgren> Ok so if i encrypt the password for LJ using a salt then
before making a client request decrypt it and then send it would you say that is
secure

[04:24] <jackola> i hear there's some encryption debate in here :D

[04:25] <supersat> no, because someone could come across the decryption key

[04:25] <challgren> Thats what you just said

[04:25] <challgren> [04:20] <supersat> store the hpassword of each user
encrypted, with the encryption key based on their MJ password, and store the MJ
password hashed

[04:26] <challgren> I would just use maybe a combo of their username and
password

[04:26] <supersat> I said to encrypt the MD5 hash of the password using a key
based on their MJ password

[04:26] <challgren> Thats what I said

[04:26] <bubba> um. hello 4:30am. mer. if i go to bed too late i'll be fucked
for going to bed decently tomorrow night, and therefore waking up monday
morning.

[04:26] <bubba> nini all :)

[04:26] <rahaeli> night babe.

[04:26] <rahaeli> I should sleep too

[04:26] * bubba drags rah to bed

[04:26] <supersat> that way, the encryption/decryption key is unique to the user
and can only be recovered with the user's password

[04:27] * Pthalo takes a picture

[04:27] <jackola> supersat: that's genius :D

[04:27] <supersat> heh

[04:27] <challgren> That what I said instead of using the password using a combo
of their username and password

[04:27] <Pthalo> its sad when people on a different continent go to bed before
you.

[04:28] <supersat> heh ;)

[04:28] <Pthalo> it's 11:30am

[04:28] <challgren> 4:30am here

[04:28] <jackola> quick question: when semagic logs in, is it sending the
password in md5?

[04:29] <supersat> I believe so

[04:29] <supersat> if not, it should be shot :P

[04:29] <jackola> i ran ethereal and that seemed to be the only secure thing
that semagic passes

[04:29] * exor674 whines

[04:30] * Quits: blue|teaing (blue@12-231-80-86.client.attbi.com ) (Quit: )

[04:30] <challgren> Ok supersat what would you say is a good cipher on
http://us3.php.net/manual/en/ref.mcrypt.php to encrypt and decrypt password

[04:31] <supersat> 3DES or Rijndael 256? ;)

[04:31] <jackola> did anyone see that article recently about how long it took a
nice beefed up computer to decrpyt md5 passwords? it was a month or 2 ago i
think.

[04:32] <jackola> or maybe that was winXP passwords.

[04:32] <supersat> it was WinXP passwords

[04:32] <Sherm> windows

[04:32] <challgren> ok I will encrypt and decrypt using 3DES

[04:32] <Sherm> you're still not going to get brad to unblock you :P

[04:32] <challgren> Why not

[04:33] <Sherm> because it's brad.

[04:33] * rahaeli heh

[04:34] <challgren> Yeah I think Brad has a mjor bug up his ass when it comes to
other peoples ideas

[04:34] <exor674> why did brad block you anyway?

[04:34] <challgren> http://www.livejournal.com/community/multijournal/4840.html

[04:35] <Sherm> brad has a "major bug up his ass" when he thinks you're doing
something stupid which will adversely affect his business

[04:35] <challgren> There are proper, cryptographic ways to do single-signon,
and this is most definitely not the right way.

[04:35] <Sherm> which, imo, is a pretty good position for a business owner to
take.

[04:35] <challgren> I like how he says this but doesnt say how to use it or if
the protocol supports it

[04:35] <exor674> btad needs to diee

[04:35] <exor674> Brad that is ;)

[04:35] <rahaeli> JESUS FUCKING CHRIST WILL YOU PEOPLE JUST DROP IT.

[04:36] <jackola> lol

[04:36] <challgren> I think these issues need to be discussed

[04:36] <Sherm> LJ is not a democracy :P

[04:37] <challgren> No more like a monoploy

[04:37] <Sherm> oh bullshit

[04:37] <challgren> The whole Phone to Post

[04:37] <rahaeli> I think that sitting around on irc at 5:30AM and bitching
because someone pointed out your own stupidity isn't going to do a damn thing.

[04:37] <challgren> and when it comes out blocking AudBlog

[04:37] <challgren> what do you call that

[04:37] <Sherm> that was karl's theory.

[04:37] <exor674> they blocked AudBlog?

[04:37] <rahaeli> I don't know about you, but I call that "hypothetical".

[04:37] <jackola> hmm, good point.

[04:37] <challgren> I call that a defentay monopoly

[04:37] <Pthalo> defentay?

[04:38] <rahaeli> and, hello? LJ's servers? LJ can do anything they want with
them?

[04:38] * challgren cant spell this ealy in the morning

[04:38] <Sherm> dude, go away. you are getting indignant about things that
haven't even happened.

[04:38] <rahaeli> an open source project that has dozens of clone sites is
hardly a monopoly.

[04:38] <Sherm> brad is under no obligation to provide you any interface with
his systems

[04:38] <rahaeli> hell, read the ToS. we can suspend you for any reason
whatsoever at any time.

[04:38] <rahaeli> our servers.

[04:38] <rahaeli> we can do what we want with them.

[04:39] <jackola> hmm, i see that said an awful lot lately.

[04:39] <challgren> Oh so now this takes a personal part

[04:39] <rahaeli> which reminds me! sherm, you with me for the planned "suspend
anyone whose username ends with an 'e'" day?

[04:39] <jackola> like, every other day in here.

[04:39] * Joins: ustmej (~trae111@6535215hfc156.tampabay.rr.com)

[04:39] <supersat> noooooo

[04:39] <jackola> kinda power trippy. bah.

[04:39] <supersat> suspend anyone whose username ends with "andy"

[04:39] <supersat> ;)

[04:40] <Sherm> *snort*

[04:41] <jackola> well i'm gonna go to bed before i get suspended. gnini!

[04:41] <jackola> ;)

[04:41] <supersat> nini

[04:41] * Parts: jackola (~jackola@nat-147-226-208-118.bsu.edu)

[04:41] <rahaeli> bleh. i should sleeeeep

[04:42] * exor674 idly ponders if Brat^Hb had a problem with me having a
personal email -> update gateway set up

[04:42] <exor674> has

[04:42] <Sherm> why would he have a problem with that?

[04:42] <Sherm> if someone hax0rz you, there is the potential for ONE retarded
abuse complaint, and rah strangles you ;)

[04:43] <challgren> probally because your sending your password over the
internet or it is being stored

[04:43] <exor674> no idea

[04:43] <exor674> heh

[04:43] <Sherm> if challgren's system takes off, and there are 100,000 users,
then there's 100,000 potential retarded abuse complaints ;)

[04:43] <challgren> Then send them my way

[04:43] <exor674> the only place my LJ password is stored is in the perl script
which is only root readable

[04:43] <exor674> ;)

[04:43] <Sherm> easy for you to say, dude :)

[04:43] <supersat> you know...

[04:44] <challgren> I will have a phone support system set up

[04:44] <supersat> I'd really make the multiservice proxy a local application

[04:44] <Pthalo> mine is stored offline, in an offline diary. safe from teH
haxxorz.

[04:44] <supersat> because there's one more thing you have to be careful of:
rate limiting.

[04:44] * exor674 needs to use phone text -> update more often

[04:44] <supersat> if some asshole tries multiple invalid logins on MJ, LJ will
auto-block MJ

[04:45] <challgren> Umm we block 3 inavlid logins

[04:45] <Sherm> *sigh*

[04:45] <Sherm> if someone tries multiple invalid LJ logins

[04:45] <Sherm> not MJ ones

[04:45] <challgren> Its detected and says maybe you have the wrong account try
in an hour

[04:46] <challgren> I like how you guys are critizing a thing you know almost
nothing about

[04:46] <supersat> MJ user A tries to post an entry through MJ, and LJ returns
"invalid password." MJ user B and C do the same thing. They all have one invalid
login, but LJ sees them as three consecutive login failures

[04:46] <supersat> and kills you

[04:46] <Sherm> if you can do it without storing mass quantities of LJ passwords
somewhere, I have no problem with it, not that my opinion is relevant at all ;)

[04:47] <challgren> I like how you guys make this out to be like MJ is hurting
LJ when in turn it is helping everyone that likes LJ

[04:48] <Sherm> uh nobody said that

[04:48] <challgren> MJ is here to bring all the servers together instead it
seems like they are being broken apart

[04:48] <Sherm> I don't think anyone has a problem with your concept, just the
implementation.

[04:48] * supersat sticks his head in x86 assembly code

[04:48] <Sherm> eew :P

[04:48] <challgren> I think one person does with her Ill suspend you attitude

[04:49] <challgren> which makes LJ look real good in a

[04:49] <supersat> yay for reverse engineering! ;)

[04:49] <Sherm> she's not going to suspend you :P

[04:49] * exor674 tosses supersat a snorkel

[04:49] <challgren> She makes it sound like it

[04:49] * Joins: jackola (~jackola@nat-147-226-208-118.bsu.edu)

[04:49] <challgren> She waves that around all the time

[04:49] <jackola> ok, i couldn't stay gone long.

[04:49] <challgren> Thats like the 17th time ive seen her post that

[04:50] <challgren> I was in here alot about a year ago

[04:50] * exor674 suspends jackola.... well I WOULD if I had 'suspend' ;

[04:50] * exor674 suspends jackola.... well I WOULD if I had 'suspend' ;)

[04:50] <Sherm> perhaps you're spending too much time in an IRC channel full of
people who would like to suspend you then?

[04:50] <challgren> every 5 hours she waves the suspend in front of you

[04:50] <jackola> i just dropped in to say that things in here get entirely too
dramatic and then volunteers and people that want to HELP the site get scared
away by suspend threats and people turning down every idea they have.

[04:50] <challgren> Suspend me for what my views my ideas

[04:51] <jackola> i left support because it started to feel like a hostile
environment where the options were to join em, leave em, or be hated. i chose to
leave.

[04:51] <jackola> gnini.

[04:51] * Parts: jackola (~jackola@nat-147-226-208-118.bsu.edu)

[04:51] <Sherm> and he hasn't been banned yet because...?

[04:51] <challgren> I say the same with Jack Thats one reason I just plain quit

[04:51] <Sherm> then what the hell are you doing here?

[04:52] <tydel> He wants your puppies, Sherminator!

[04:52] <Sherm> few things around here bugged me more than people who quit and
won't go away.

[04:52] <Sherm> pick one. "quit" or don't.

[04:52] <supersat> heh, the sherminator should run for governor of WA ;)

[04:52] <challgren> Few things around here that bother me are the views of some
people the opression

[04:53] * exor674 ninis now

[04:53] <supersat> nini

[04:53] * tydel votes to supersat

[04:53] <exor674> just because he is up WAAAAY to late

[04:53] <Sherm> you are not going to fucking get suspended. nobody is going to
get suspended that doesn't explicitly violate the TOS. objects in mirror may be
closer than they appear.

[04:53] * Quits: exor674 (~exor674@ACC55DA0.ipt.aol.com ) (Quit: )

[04:53] <challgren> But liek rahaeli said I can suspend you for any reason if
you read the TOS

[04:54] <rahaeli> christ, i don't even suspend people who cause 90% of my
workload.

[04:54] <rahaeli> everyone just needs to chill out.

[04:54] * supersat agrees

[04:54] <rahaeli> go read some porn. porn makes everything better.

[04:54] <challgren> rahaeli why do you say your gonna suspend me

[04:54] <challgren> it seems someone has too much power

[04:54] <rahaeli> Show me where I said that I would.

[04:55] <challgren> ok give me a min

[04:55] <rahaeli> I was making a bloody /point/, okay?

[04:55] * tydel *cough* /msg operserv

[04:55] * Pthalo passes out popcorn

[04:56] * supersat eats some... thanks

[04:56] <rahaeli> bleh, screw a whole double handful of this conversation, i'm
going to bed

[04:56] * rahaeli is now known as rah|zzz

[04:56] <Pthalo> sweet dreams

[04:56] <Sherm> hehe

[04:56] <rah|zzz> night all.

[04:56] <supersat> nini rah

[04:56] <Lance> g'night rah~

[04:56] <challgren> [04:38] <rahaeli> hell, read the ToS. we can suspend you for
any reason whatsoever at any time.

[04:57] <tydel> You really need to quit reading too much into things.

[04:57] <tydel> She's stating a fact

[04:57] <tydel> begone

[04:57] <challgren> No shes waving power

[04:58] <jc> Hoo, I just missed a biggie here

[04:58] * jc reads scrollback

[04:58] <challgren> Do you see the police walking around town saying to you I
can arrest you for that. You do that I can arrest you for that. I can arrest you
for anything I want to.

[04:59] * Disconnected

[04:59] * Attempting to rejoin channel #lj_support

[04:59] * Rejoined channel #lj_support

[04:59] * Set by asciigamer on Tue Oct 07 01:21:07

[04:59] * ChanServ sets mode: +b *!*@c-67-173-71-94.client.comcast.net

[04:59] * You were kicked by ChanServ (time to chill )

[04:59] * Attempting to rejoin channel #lj_support

[04:59] 1,11 [Channel Whois for #lj_support       1 ]

[04:59] 14 T opic: 2 We do talk in here occasionally, believe it or not :)

[04:59] 14 C reated: 2 Sun Sep 22 23:32:29 2002

[04:59] 14 C hanOps: 2 0 14 N onOps: 2 0 14 I RCops: 2 0

[04:59] 14 V oiced: 2 0 14 A way: 2 0 14 H ere: 2 0

[04:59] 14 T otal U sers: 2

[04:59] 1,11 [End Channel Whois               1 ]

Session Close: Sun Oct 19 05:00:08 2003





This ends because of

[04:59] Closing Link: c-67-173-71-94.client.comcast.net challgren (Killed (tydel
(Come back when you decide to act like a grown up)))



Then

[04:59] * You were kicked from #lj_support by ChanServ (time to chill)



Then

[05:00] Closing Link: c-67-173-71-94.client.comcast.net (autokilled: You are
banned from this network)




All because I have some views I think this is pure bullshit from LJ's end.
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